A management prof at CMU with a nice blog that does not provide interaction raised some points about the role and purpose of education -- and the job quest.
I'd rather take the conversation to another blog space, but need to put it here, for now, as a public posting depot. Sorry if you're confused. My mentions are in part open-ended questions.
So, my offline email to Chad, the professor includes:
What about the "gear heads" who are at CMU doing things like RED STORM? Have we come full circle?
What about the lack of Pgh Public School's VO Tech high school?
Pittsburgh is a place -- as is CMU -- where we are great at building thing. Management is nice -- but the real value isn't from management -- but from the outputs / outcomes.
(I'm getting under you skin, Mgt. Professor... to kick up some chatter.)
I think a good scholar is also a good hire -- employee. But, isn't it a good scholar one who can organize his/her thoughts, paper-trail, resume.
And, what of life-long learning? Don't we really want to teach students at Universities not what to think -- but how to think and discover and continue to evolve themselves for decades to come. So, it is good for "know thyself" and good for quick interview and assessement to know what is with and about this other person.
Okay -- finally -- what about my resume? What about my thinking out loud in a blog format? What about the confidence that I hope to rally with the blog efforts? So, as a candidate, I need to build my 'resume' and my 'campaign.' Then the voters decide to hire me or not come election day.
So, we are doing a dance. I don't find that "harmful" -- but an extention of a more holistic way to approach the crafting of our lives.
As I blog, I rant about XYZ -- whatever. I'm sure I write things that others don't agree with. I go out on a limb. I'm not always "endearing" as some politicians might want to play it much closer to the vest. They don't want to fail or be a turn-off. But, that play it safe mode isn't the type of leadership that pittsburgh needs at this critical time.
Today the purpose isn't to reach agreement with everyone. But, it is to allow for public thinking, problem solving, building interactions, building relationships and pumping up respect among all sectors (or as much as possible).
Mine isn't a 'guarded management style.' For the grass-roots to thrive -- it has to be out there and wide. Bottoms-up and all.
In the end, back to the posting of yours -- I don't have much of a problem with the advice from the teachers at Dayton. I think it is more of an invite to be modern, up to date, self-documented, and highlighting the self evolution.
I'll post this on my blog --- and might cause deer in the headlights reactions from readers, but let's see.
Ta.
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3 comments:
Hello, Mark --
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
> What about the "gear heads" who are at CMU doing things like RED STORM? Have we come full circle?
I suppose you could argue that.
Of course, I'd also wager that the folks doing RED STORM didn't spend a lot of time worrying about how to market themselves to prospective employers when they were developing the skills they're now using.
My point -- my problem is not with Dayton's attention to career placement but with their seemingly overheated first-to-last primary emphasis on it --
is that the better you work more on your education than on your marketing, more on your skills than on your spin, because once you get out there and
need to actually do something -- whether that's working on RED STORM or working for criminal and social justice or teaching writing and public speaking -- you can no longer rely on a nice headshot and web site.
> What about the lack of Pgh Public School's VO Tech high school?
I happen to think that's a shame. And a gaping hole in the education of a lot of city kids for whom -- the derision of young, arrogant classmates notwithstanding -- that kind of training would be incredibly valuable.
> Pittsburgh is a place -- as is CMU -- where we are great at building thing. Management is nice -- but the real value isn't from management -- but from the outputs / outcomes.
> (I'm getting under you skin, Mgt. Professor... to kick up some chatter.)
You need to read more closely, Mark.
I'm a COMMUNICATION professor who happens to be teaching in professional management programs at CM. There is, I'm happy to report, a big difference. Many of my colleagues look askance at me, and that's just fine. In fact, I wouldn't have it any other way.
> I think a good scholar is also a good hire -- employee. But, isn't it a good scholar one who can organize his/her thoughts, paper-trail, resume.
Ideally, if not necessarily.
And I'm certainly not arguing for a world full of scholars. (Lord help us!) But I am arguing for a world full of learners, which is a damn site better,
at least in my view, than a world full of self-promoters.
All of this, it should be noted, is colored by my experience with students of both kinds -- guess which ones are my favorites? -- in my teaching.
> And, what of life-long learning? Don't we really want to teach students at Universities not what to think -- but how to think and discover and continue to evolve themselves for decades to come.
Of course. Absolutely. Amen.
But I surely don't see those principles in the command to build an online resume before you've taken your first college class.
> Okay -- finally -- what about my resume? What about my thinking out loud in a blog format? What about the confidence that I hope to rally with the blog efforts? So, as a candidate, I need to build my 'resume and my 'campaign.' Then the voters decide to hire me or not come election day.
Winning an election and landing a job, no matter how much recruiters and politicians like to wax metaphorical about the similarities, are radically
different.
> So, we are doing a dance. I don't find that "harmful" -- but an extention of a more holistic way to approach the crafting of our lives.
Neither do I, necessarily. But to compare yourself to an 18-year-old freshman is pretty much apples-and-oranges. I don't know you, of course,
but I can infer from your writing and your thinking that you're educated and engaged in these kids of issues and ideas and ideals, and so you have not
just the experience and the training but also the repertoire of music behind you to support that dance.
Those folks at Dayton -- and some of my colleagues at CMU -- are trying to get these kids to dance before teaching them -- or at least helping them to
refine -- a sense of rhythm.
> As I blog, I rant about XYZ -- whatever. I'm sure I write things that others don't agree with. I go out on a limb. I'm not always "endearing" as some politicians might want to play it much closer to the vest.
Well, to me, going out on a limb makes you an endearing politician. Or at least an interesting one. As a citizen, as a communicator, as a blogger --
hell, as a human being -- my preference is always for the candidates who come out and speak their minds. (Thoughtfully, passionately, pointedly.)
> They don't want to fail or be a turn-off. But, that play it safe mode isn't the type of leadership that pittsburgh needs at this critical time.
Amen, brother.
> Today the purpose isn't to reach agreement with everyone. But, it is to allow for public thinking, problem solving, building interactions,
> building relationships and pumping up respect among all sectors (or as much as possible).
>
> Mine isn't a 'guarded management style.' For the grass-roots to thrive -- it has to be out there and wide. Bottoms-up and all.
Fair enough. And difficult to disagree with. Even as I struggle to see how any of this is relevant to the original discussion.
So...
...is this an intellectual exchange, or just another campaign strategy? An attempt to engage me in thoughtful give-and-take, or, in the end, just a tactic to get your name and your mind on my political radar?
You'll forgive my cynicism here, but the latter half of your email takes a rather obvious turn into territory far afield from my blog post and your
initial reaction to it.
> In the end, back to the posting of yours -- I don't have much of a problem with the advice from the teachers at Dayton. I think it is more of an invite to be modern, up to date, self-documented, and highlighting the self evolution.
That's possible.
Except that much of their advice is just plain bad. As I wrote in the post, I don't claim to know that much about hiring in Criminal Justice Studies,
but, in my experience, I find it hard to believe that those things work or really carry any value other than the perception that one is being modern,
up-to-date, and self-documented. For business and computer science and engineering and economics and history and a lot of other majors whose
students I teach, that advice will actually undermine their chances of impressing recruiters and finding a good job.
I also suspect that you might feel differently if you sat where I sit, and if you were more fully immersed in the context and culture of that kind of
advice, which stresses -- and here I am, back where I (and we) began -- marketing and self-promotion over education and self-improvement, which
privileges the accumulation of a signing bonus over the accumulation of a well-balanced education.
A pleasure.
Yours,
Chad
Mark Rauterkus wrote:
Nods. Well, I do care about Vo Tech. I care about CMU and the Pittsburgh exer...
Hello, Mark --
> Sorry to seem overly self promotional. Makes us even for your no feedback form on your blog. :)
Fair enough.
Though I like to think of it as more self-preservation-al.
> Yes, I also see your points now more clearly about the youthfulness and the working from a base of existing understandings. Mostly being more mature and not on day one of university life.
Exactly. Glad to have clarified.
And glad to have exchanged emails.
I'll look forward to seeing your name and to following your campaign -- for mayor, I presume?
I'll also have to check out your blog when I get a chance. Right now, it's back to preparing for class tomorrow.
Once again, a pleasure.
"Many of my colleagues look askance at me, and that's just fine. In fact, I wouldn't have it any other way."
People have looked at Chad for this way for a while, especially in Chad's early days in Pittsburgh at DU.
It's not suprising to me at all. I hope that arrogance wears off sometime soon.
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